211: Defeating Despair by Restoring Reason with Dr. Travis M. Corcoran

Dr. Travis Corcoran is the author of Restoring Reason, using

the ancient liberal arts to defend against modern manipulation.

He is a philosopher and a liberal arts enthusiast who helps aspiring

scholars to pursue a self-taught education. He's been involved with

the health care industry in the Netherlands. He also has a Bachelor's

Degree in Philosophy and a minor in Biology. He has been involved

with finances and other leadership areas in life. He is our guest today

on the Beyond Adversity podcast. Dr. Travis Corcoran. Corcoran,

welcome to Beyond Adversity.

Thank you, Dr. Brad, it's a pleasure to be here, man.

Well, thank you, Travis, appreciate you being with me. I'm

fascinated by our topic here today. A lot of it has to do with

my own background. You are a philosopher and a person

who is an intellectual person. And yet you have, from

reading through your book, you also have some issues with

academia, you also have some issues with big business and

big government and some things along this line. I come from

a background in ministry myself, and I also have a degree in

Philosophy and Religion and just have an interest in how one

can use reason in your mind to tackle issues in life. And to think

through things and not just only be reactionary, and I think it's a

little bit what you're about. But what a mission, first of all is.

What is, what was something that kind of triggered something for

you? What were some adversity or something in your life that

triggered you to have something that you'd said that, Okay, I

gotta find a methodology or a way to navigate this that

maybe apart from my past?

I think Brad would have was, I came into it through discourse, right?

Like, good, healthy conflict with people good discourse. I began to

Do you have any particular you very particular experience there,

that there was an incredible difficulty trying to, I guess, teach

Travis, it really kind of was a tipping point for you one particular

argument or encounter a situation in the business world or academics

someone, help someone, or help them learn about whatever

where you said, Okay, that's enough, I got to deal with that.

topic it may be. And it's usually a topic that I have some certainty

on, like a topic about whether it's like, how to eat, how to exercise,

what form of healthcare. And what I realized is that probably

myself included, many people are very emotionally attached to

their previous conviction biases, something that they're just so

emotionally invested in that they're convinced it's true. I guess I

just finally saw through all the particular discussions, there was

one line, something that went through every one of those, and that

was that we defend based on emotion. And so I decided what I

rather do is have discussions with people about thinking. So that's

what really what pushed me to write this book and to share these

methods with other people. So that they weren't stuck in this.

In my field, there are plenty in academics, but the ones that and

you can probably relate to this. The ones that motivate, inspired

me and motivated me the most are the ones that have a family.

Those are the people I care about. And also there, I'm sure you

would agree with this, they're often the most difficult people to

get through to because I mean, my parents, my siblings, they know

me as like this little kid. And as you grow up and develop maybe

some expertise or preeminence in an area or field, it's still hard for

them to see you as an expert. it's not that you're trying to make

them wrong. You're just want to share this information. So for me,

it was really with them about probably about food and healthcare.

And it got to be a bit. Yeah, I didn't want to jeopardize a relationship.

So what I did was I put the arguments to the side. I just began to teach

them basically, without their knowing I was teaching them the trivium.

Like all my discussions were then based around, how do you form your

opinions? Where do you get your data from? Things like that. So in a

roundabout way, I just wanted to teach them the proper tools and

skills. And then yeah, years later, it's I'm sitting in a very good position

with my family. They look to me as the like the trusted authority on

health and exercise and food and all this stuff, something comes out

in the news, immediately I get a phone call. So things change. It was

a slow, deliberate process, where I had to make sure they had the tools

that I was using, right? Every mathematician, if they understand in a

subtraction, they're gonna get the same conclusion. But if they understand

those concepts and principles, so I didn't have to worry about winning a

debate or telling them my conclusion. I gave them the tools to reach the

conclusion themselves, then that was far more empowering for them.

It's not like you're in a better place now with your family and with others,

and you've learned some of this process here. Applying data, applying logic

to situations is kind of hard to do. And, you know, particularly you and I are

talking about things like, you know, the top of your book is reason. We're

talking about some things like logic and data, but you know, as you

mentioned that your family and some others. We live in an emotionally

boiling point world in many ways, and many, many people do not react

well. But let's be honest about it. When we try to apply logic and reason

and thinking to processes that people would rather almost automatically

our reaction area to get emotional, our they dredge up something from

their past experience, and apply it in an appropriate way. So when I talked

to her met her about his life, what are some of the things you've learned

and some of the applications so the actions that you've taken, some of

the ways that you then took this experience with your family and in

academics and other things, and began to shift? What are some of these

that you started to do, because they have direction a lot of people would

have, I've had my own family, where you kind of react to emotion with

emotion. And that really doesn't get it get stuck. So I'll tell you that some

of the things that you did, then to help you get to this better point with

your family, and some of the areas that you

There was something that was I was always doing a little bit as

I got a little more mature, or something I did more frequently as

I got older, and that was self reflect and making sure that my

perspective conformed to reason. So many people like in once I

put this book out, and since I've been teaching, a lot of people come

to me and they'll say they're crazy, man, they always have the same.

Brad, they come with the same question every time. It's like, Hey, I'm

dealing with someone who's unreasonable. How do I convince them

this and this or whatever it may be? I always say, well, first, you need to

be certain that you're correct, or that your conclusions are true. Have you

evaluated your premises? Have you looked at those? So that was one thing

I did. The other, I think was also really important. And that helped a lot. And

that was to be more responsible with my language. Language is, if I were to

ask anyone, like, words have incredible power, like with a few choice words,

you can really build someone up or you can break them down. You can destroy

relationships, build relationships, words have power. I don't know anyone that

would say, It's okay to use power irresponsibly. So why are so many people

okay with using words and irresponsibility and I decided that I was no

longer going to do that. So I decided to start making efforts to use

the words for what they mean and mean what I say. And so some of

those things had, the first things I started looking at were science, the

word science, the word data, the word reason, the word understanding,

the knowledge, they're not all the same. Like right now you look at the

news would have us believe legacy media, which I write about my book,

they would have us believed that the word science is somehow synonymous

with truth, which couldn't be further from the truth. Like science comes

from Latin seance or searra to know and knowledge that can be correct

can be incorrect. Like over my my lifetime, your lifetime, Brad what we're

always trying to do is improve the quality and quantity of our knowledge.

And when we find that some college knowledge is mistaken or incorrect,

we eliminate it, make room for new, but it is not the truth. It's just a

database. The majority that's acquired empirically and then through

reason, we add to the quality of knowledge, rationally so we acquire

rational knowledge and empirical knowledge. And so I started get like

just talking about those I started to be a bit more specific. Someone told

me they have evidence. Okay, that's great. Evidence, however, is just data

must prove something. Evidence itself is not proof. Right? So, I just wanted

to make those clear to people and maybe easier to drive the discussion forward.

I think it's a couple of things you said they're really important in terms

of when you said to think and reflect, I also thought of the word kind

of pause, you know, take a breath. You know, sometimes people will

say it this way, okay, you know, calm down, take a breath, whatever.

I think that's kind of an important aspect there, and I know that, I think

it's Stephen Covey says something, it is Seven Habits about an order to

be understood, take time to understand. You know, to try to try to see

the other person's point of view. And then you also said, choose your

words carefully. Because, man, you just never know what a reactionary

thing, what damage it can do. And just, it may send, you know, set of

trying to be convincing, you know, kind of in a debate type of

thing, that all you're doing is putting up walls and separation

there. That's not helpful, that's not helpful. And I kind of I wanted

to really get into some of your particular processes you

use for a reason in just a second here. But you mentioned kind

of this area of just a little touched on a little bit about how kind

of that reflective and meditative process about how you're trying

to looking for some area of commonality. And I'm wondering if

there is any aspect of this, Travis, in your experience that is

kind of this place? That's a little bit beyond what our present

circumstances are? What I mean by that is, you know, for Is there

any connection to the did you think to something greater than itself

or greater than the relationship that comes into play here? For

some people might be meditation, some people want to be

spirituality, some people might be religion, some people might

be something else. But is there any place for something kind of

a vibe beyond self that comes into play to helping people to

come to this of what I think is your goal of a higher quality?

Higher quality life, I would say, requires recognition of something

higher than yourself. Like that's like a foregone conclusion for me.

And I certainly am convinced that it's not just and I would say, it's

more than a belief. It's not to me, it's not a belief. I have knowledge,

that conforms to reason that there is something higher, and that

if it wasn't there, we wouldn't have Well, life. Life is the expression

of some intelligence in matter. So and that's in my profession, which

is something we talk about a lot. So yeah, for me, and one of my

favorite quotes, also, this is from an old Russian philosopher, Mikhail

McCune. And he says The Liberty, so freedom, the freedom, the

liberty, the liberty of man consists solely in this, that he

understands the laws of nature for himself, not because they

were given to him externally, by some, yeah, by some other force

and other person. So to me, like for some people, it's very spiritual, I

guess it can be for me, too. This is where I'm careful with my words, but

really share laws of nature. Like nature is like those are the only real laws.

Man has convinced us that they have laws too. But those are

really rules, rules can be changed, and they're always changed

by the ruler, right? Wear your seat belt, Don't go this fast.

Don't do this. But nature has laws. When you violate those

laws, you pay. You pay the for instance, small I jump off the

top of my house here, there will be consequences of violence

law. Yeah, there's also these extends when someone truly like

Mikhail Vicuna was saying, once you truly understand the laws

of nature, that also makes murder and all these other things that

we would read in like say the 10 commandments and

many other religious or spiritual texts, that those are also

write a very reasonable conclusion from the laws of

nature as well. And then, which leads to question to the more

theologically inclined scholar to start asking, well, who's the

author of nature?

I think it's a that's awesome. I'm just a big believer that

you know, to have high quality life involves personal transformation.

If you want to go transform groups, bodies of any kind be the

business or a political group or country whatever personal

transformation has to take place and corporate transfer.

Transformation has to take place and that's a part of it and

yet, you have these entities these forces that kind of push

against it transformation. And you talk about love about

those who in your book. And let's go about, you know,

there are some authors talk about the resistance we all

go against. What are some of these forces that we have to

battle against? Or do be and deal with in order to have

personal high quality of life? Go into those areas, just

for a minute here? I know you mentioned

These, I would call them a bit nefarious and some

people with good reservation, they like to think no, that

can't be with academia. Academia is definitely one of

them. I would say, academia, big government, big tech,

big corporations, and legacy media. Just a quick example.

I mean, in the last 10 years, you can see how all five kind of

collude, they're like accomplices in a way. And it's a shame

because not every institution starts like this, I would say the

majority of institutions, political, academic, theological,

otherwise, they all start with the best of intentions, it's just

through loss of principles and objectives that they begin to

lose their moral compass. But a quick example of how these

five work together if we were just taking example, in our society

today, in the last 10 years, there's not a year goes by that you

can't find at least one giant pharmaceutical company.

I mean, we could take like, weapons manufacturers, whatever.

But let's just focus there will focus on that. That in the last 10

years, not a single year goes by that not one of those big

companies is found guilty for some sort of scientific fraud or

have some some regard. Maybe its for, you know, millions

and if not billions, dollars in fines. So, here we can share,

Which makes you wonder what we're not knowing.

That's, you know, what they're getting what they're getting away,

it's just what they caught, right? So if you just consider that

here, we have evidence that big like Big Pharma, that's

big corporation, okay, guilty. Now, the people that should be

holding them accountable, big government, but they're so

tied together, that they get a slap on the wrist, you know,

they make trillions of dollars from a pharmaceutical drug and

pay a fraction of millions off that trillion dollar offset. So

government is supposed to hold them accountable

academia, where they do the research for these drugs, if

all their funding comes from pharma and the big government?

Well, I can tell you what 100% of scientists agree with whoever's

paying for their studies. Next, I shouldn't be hearing about this

on legacy media. But they they do quite a good job of keeping

this all hush hush, and us more concerned about what the

Kardashians or some other celebrities doing. And then, so

I want to talk about it say on social media, well, then, they

have like carte blanche, they can censor me, shut me down,

shadow ban. So the five of these are like, they work. That's just

one example, right? We'll just say pharmaceutical corruption.

But you can see how five of them work hand in hand to really

in the way I see it, they murder the intellect. They are guilty of

murdering the intellect when I steal, or withhold information

from you. I'm stealing from you the opportunity to conclude

the truth to live your life in the truth.

You use that phraseology there, Travis.

Murder the intellect. Because I know that is where

you go with your book and with your thinking and

your teaching is how the individual has to take

responsibility for their own intellectual property as it

were your own mind, your own thinking, your own

decision making. And a lot of what you write about

is making high quality decisions to lead to high quality

life. And you use something I'm fascinated by via the

process here, you talk about an AI, I like to talk in my

teaching about thinking with discipline, and to apply

that kind of strategy, strategic thinking in your life. You

really bring back to us some ancient ways of thinking,

Ancient Future, if you will. if you could unpack that for

us a little bit you the subtitle of your book is ancient

liberal arts. Tell us a bit of what you're talking about

there and how we need to you mentioned about the

big, you know, the big business and big media and so

on how this individual approach can help us to deal

with all this pressure we have.

I'm trying to make this as simple as I can. I used to

recommend this book by sister Mariam Joseph called

The Trivium, which talks about the first three of the seven

classical liberal arts, and that's what I'm also bringing forth

in my book. I'm just doing it in a more digestible way. I used

to recommend her book but people didn't find it, I don't know

sexy enough for entry getting it. It reads like a university text.

However, it is such a great book, and I still recommend it to

people. But nowadays people are looking-

well laid on me just for my own personal reference.

If nothing else, what is the book that you're referring to?

Here we go, I'm gonna hold it up for you

just in case the video gets.

Okay, well, we're going to be posting this as well.

So the trivium. And who's the author?

Sister Miriam Joseph. It's the liberal arts

and logic, grammar and rhetoric.

We'll put a besides your book, I'll put a link to that

in our show notes to Dr. Brad Miller

People get a lot of benefit from that hour. The book

does it what it misses, is, it's not like and this is what I think

your podcast is all about. It's not providing any explanation

or examples of how the trivium or these liberal arts are

going to better your life or empower you. And if you

recognize that we live in a world with, let's say, nefarious

agents who are out to murder the intellect, and then it is

your responsibility to, I mean, if I walked into a room with

some nefarious creatures, it's up to me to defend myself.

But it's really become more information war. And so we

have to prepare our mind that needs to be a strong defense.

So those first three liberal arts are the first three of the

classical seven is knowledge, understanding and wisdom,

or as Sister Miriam Joseph calls them more academically,

grammar, logic, and rhetoric. And they go pretty simple.

The first liberal art is compiling data information, naming

things and structuring, how to structure a statement. And

using proper words. The second liberal art logic or reason,

or understanding, this is where you're constructing arguments.

So once you know how to properly construct a statement, your

you know how to define your words, you use the correct words,

respect for the words, then you form arguments, that's multiple

statements. So like an argument in, in logic, or in philosophy, an

argument isn't like a debate or a fight or a disagreement and

argument is a minimum of three statements, two of which are

premises, one of which is a conclusion. Of course, you could

have many more premises, but it's a minimum of three

statements. And then the third liberal art is concerned that

rhetoric or wisdom, wisdom is the expression of what you know, and

what you understand. And that's concerned with effectiveness. So

that was something I had to practice when I was communicating

with my family. For all the knowledge and understanding I had, I was

not an effective communicator. So those are the three liberal arts

now has to do with the quality of our mind and how we present

that quality of mind to others.

So how do we start applying these in practical

sense, you know, you've, you've named them off here, the

trivium of understanding wisdom and knowledge. You

mentioned, you know, kind of in broad strokes, how important

they are. But let's get practical for a minute, Travis. So, you know,

let's just say that I'm in one of these conflicts, you know, politically

or health where you've rated COVID, you know, COVID's a huge

thing in our world the last couple of years to least help people, you

know, deal with that in their family know that, things like that. So can

you give us kind of a playoff scenario for us how we might apply

these areas in our life in order to deal with some challenging situations?

I think the first thing is that what you mentioned this brand, and

that was a that what you were saying from Dr. Or from Stephen

Covey, pause, just pause for a moment. Think about the words you're

using that I always start with the words I use in defining terms. If you

recognize there's conflict, like you're a bit heated or a lot heated, you

have to practice recognizing that first otherwise you stay stuck

in the what you would call debate. I don't like debates, I prefer

discussion, because the debate assumes

debate indicates a winner or loser does

Always the assumption that one must win one must lose.

In a discussion done properly, yep, everyone wins. Because

most people are walking away a bit wiser. Of course, that

requires deep right? Having a desire to learn. Yeah, that's the

first thing when especially when you're talking to a loved one.

When you're talking to a loved one remit, you have to remember

you both care about each other's outcome, that may help

with the pause. When you do then the first thing is to define

your terms. Let's make sure we understand one another. What is

it you're you're trying to say? And then I often try to repeat it

back in my own words to make sure that I do understand what

they're trying to say before I even give my opinion, because I

may have to reflect maybe they were actually in agreement

with me. So pause or define your terms understand the other

party. And remember, above all, when it's a friend, family or co

worker, it's very likely that you're concerned with each other's well

being, you're not just doing this because you want to destroy a relationship.

Most of them, we do not really, truly wish the other party ill. We

just kind of think they're wrong. We think we're right, but we but

the realization is you just kind of put in those flat out terms that

it becomes a debate and people get defensive and put up walls,

and so on and so forth. And it's ultimately not helpful to the end

result, which is higher quality of life for others. And so if you can

find some way, and this is what you're helping us do here, and I

love it here, Travis, you're helping us find a process where we can

help both parties navigate this to come out to someplace of

mutual understanding, probably no one is going to be

completely, you know, bought into the other side. But if we

can find a way to live together, and find a way to enjoy one

another, and come out to a better place, that's a win, that's a win win.

And there's a lot of other things we can do to that's just the

beginning for me. And that's just at the at the get go when

we're in the first phase of the trivium. Later, we really, yeah, logic

is really the key to the whole thing, you have to make

sure you're familiar with

You use a phrase logic is power to tell us

what you mean by that, in terms of our conversation here.

Many people falsely believe that like Knowledge is

power. Knowledge is not really power. Understanding

that knowledge is what power is, right when I can, when I can,

Sometimes hard to call the proper application of

knowledge as well, I'll feel it Don't, don't you think about that. But

I'll give you a clue or not clue, but an example. I can tell you

what the Pythagorean theorem is A squared plus B

squared equals C squared and a two dimensional right

triangle. Okay, now you have knowledge. But if you it's

far more powerful, if you understood that yourself, you

understand how it was derived the principles how to

derive it, you can do it on your own, it's a much

stronger and more powerful mind than the one

that just takes in information and believes it. Because

although the Pythagorean theorem is true, if you if one

were to get in the practice of acquiring knowledge, that

way, like I was just told, then that's a very dangerous and

precarious situation. If you don't know how to verify yourself

through deductive or inductive reasoning, and the operators

have logic, then you are forever dependent on trusting authorities,

when ultimately, you are the authority in your life. And that's the

difference when someone has the skills of logic and they know

how to, like validate, does this conform to reason or not? That is

incredible power. Knowledge. I mean, knowledge is not

like I can't Brad, I have this phone right here in front of me, I can

Google just about anything, knowledge is just pouring in

whatever I want. But I can't validate if it's correct or

incorrect, with logic, which is systematic, reliable,

reproducible, stable, that foundation is incredible power.

And that goes the process, I believe because you know,

we're talking about one of the things that people deal

with one of the things I was struck by just a few months

ago, Travis was Google Google search does a year end

thing about the year and search. And the end of the year

21. There wasn't top search terms and the top search term

in Google was Google was how can I heal. And I just thought

that was really kind of fascinating, because it just talked

about process, you know, that I'm hurting I want to heal.

But I also think it has to do with people have so much

access to information now. And you know, the whole

thing about information overload and whether it's, you know,

medicine or politics or anything else, or you know, entertainment.

There's so much out there, it's just can overcome us. And I think

what you're trying to do and what I'm really all about is helping

people get a process then to help find it for yourself, what's

for you. And in that process, you do have to narrow some

stuff down and you do have to simplify things, you know, if you

and I, for instance, could if we chose to, you know, we both

come kind of from a philosophy background, you know, we

could talk about, you know, Immanuel Kant or any number

of things we could talk about if we wanted to, or epistemology

and things like that, we could throw around terms that kind of

stuff that you and I could relate to, but it would not mean a hill

of beans to a lot of other people we're dealing with when we're

just talking about uh, you know, how you know stuff and how you

do stuff, you know, that kind of stuff. And so I want to go there

with you for just a second about you obviously wrote this book

with people in mind and situations in mind and want to serve

some sort of a, serve the public, you know, and I know that you

have some of your feelings about, about kind of traditional

self help type of things. But I believe in your heart, you're

wanting to try to help people get a process here. So let's

talk about how this book and how what you teach can

serve others, especially artists, use the term serve others

with love and the sense of, you know, really caring on

some deeper level, how can somebody use your book or

have to use what you teach, in order to be helpful in their life,

I put in this, first I kind of like, put forth the five

suspects, those legacy media academia, then I wanted

to give the trivium in the best, most easy usable, I like

what you're saying not in a way, like someone who's

studied philosophy has a degree in philosophy would

talk about it, but it's super user friendly way. So they can

enter this, this realm with us that they also have the same

tools that you and I have. And in the remainder of the book, I

spend the rest of it just talking about how just, there's plenty

more. That's why I loved the discussion around this, before I

talked about the four areas of your life, that how they'll get

better, or that can get better. And some examples of how that

might be a talked about how it's going to affect relationships,

business decisions, health care, and politics. And those things,

when left to rule by emotion, they are very erratic, unstable.

emotions come and go, like how you how we feel about each

other right now, Brad, that can change in five minutes or five

months. That's right. And that's not what decisions should be

made on, especially about my health care, or my politics or

business. You know, I don't know anyone's successful in

business or any super healthy person that's making rash,

emotional decisions. So it's all about slowing down. And I

really just want to restore reason to the world restore reasons,

discussions, we all live together. I'm you and I, Brad, and

we're not roommates. In fact, we don't even live in the same

country. But with your family, or my family, or whoever I live

with in same house, I want us to have a higher quality life.

And that means you restore reason to our discussions to

the home. I think that should also apply to my community

to my country, because ultimately, we're all kind of

roommates on the planet. And that's the shirt. Yeah, look,

That's kind of what I'm sorry. I was just kind of what you

mean, when you talk in your book and you're teaching

about achieving preeminence? Is that where we're

going with this here now about how to come to that? That place?

Yeah. That's what I mean with your podcast. Which, by the

way, this Beyond Adversity, how many people need this

right now? And when you keep putting out quality

information, what happens? I mean, people see Dr.

Brad Miller as the trusted authority on over

on like, overcoming adversity, right? You become

the preeminent person on that. And that's what we need.

We need more people that are preeminent, not based on

emotion, but because of the loving service, the quality of

service, what they give and what they provide. Those are

the people I want to see in preeminent positions. Those

should be the trusted authorities, not the ones that have

gotten there by leveraging malevolently our emotions.

That's why these tools belong in the hands of not just

these giant, mega institutions, but they belong in the

hands of every one of my neighbors, friends and family.

All right, well, let's talk one, just one more track of

question or two for you. And it has to do with

neighbors, friends and family, and what you're touching

on there. What I'm going to get with you here, Travis is,

Has there been any situation or person or co worker, or

family member or for maybe someone who's been a No,

you said person sometime in the college world? A student

of yours perhaps who's followed some of your advice and

you've seen Okay. Let's see some change here. I see

something good happening here. I'm looking for a story

here now. something, some transformation

That happens with a lot of my colleagues actually, the COVID

was a crazy time, of course, like you've already said,

and you could see it amazing. It just astounds me how

COVID was destroying families. Like they were being

broken up because of their They're diverging opinions.

And so what I saw with some of my colleagues, I teach

this with my colleagues all the time, the one and the more.

The ones that spend more time with me get more of this

teaching. And one of the things that comes out is yeah, this

is many of my colleagues are expats. They they're not here

from the Netherlands, they come from Norway, Italy,

Spain, England, from all over. Sure. And so,

and you're an American citizen to make clear.

Yeah, so my I'm also an expat. I also live far away

from my family. And they all seem to be having

this similar breakdown where the brothers and

sisters, their parents, they were just like, the relationship

breaking down. And I had already been like, years ago,

long before COVID. I've already been through all this.

And I, over the years, my relationship has completely

transformed, based on just taking time away, years

away, like becoming a preeminent person. Being firm

in my knowledge, my understanding, making sure that

I know I understand what I'm talking about. And luckily,

now I can pass this on and how to go about it and how

to hold these discussions so that people don't have to

go through kind of what I went through. One of my

colleagues, he's like, probably one of the most shining

examples right now. They're actually a couple of Palos

well, but they go home now, it wasn't my Italian colleague,

he goes home now. His sister, his parents, all like fully on

border, he is now the preeminent health care. His

mother, as a doctor, a medical doctor. But he goes

home, he is the preeminent, he's the trusted authority

on health care now. Same with one of my Norwegian

colleagues, he goes home, and it's great to watch

them, do these things to find their terms, slow down,

ask questions, understand the other party. The other

thing that they do really well, that I hope more people

do is stop attaching yourself to ideologies, opinions,

and perceptions. We always use possessive pronouns.

We talked about this earlier, BRrad the use of words.

So when we stop using possessive pronouns, and use

like definite or indefinite articles before, so if you and

I are having a discussion, and we have opposed

ideologies, I would say, instead of, well, my opinion,

I would say, well, here's a opinion. Here's another

opinion, what about this perspective, or that idea,

instead of mine, yours, because, like you said, that's

and then also help people make their own decision as

why we get so worked up and emotionally reactive,

because we think we are being attacked, the more we

well, you know, you're not imposing your will on them,

you're helping provide a framework or process

where you've got this, you're attaching ourselves to this

stuff. And if, if the other party doesn't know it, that's okay.

You have to be above that and know that, like, that's

emotionally convicted as they are. That's simply their opinion

. If you want to help them, make a better decision or see something

more clearly. See, actually look at the evidence that contradicts

their ideology. That doesn't have to take years of struggle

and conflict. It can happen when you work on your rhetoric

or your wisdom, your expression of that knowledge and

understanding and make that happen. You can what's

the word I'm looking for? facilitate that? At a much quicker rate.

If you can be the facilitator, then you can be as you've

mentioned here, kind of the preeminent authority in that

process, and be helpful. I'm kind of all about how what can

we do in this world to be helpful and help people gain.

I like to use the word gain instead of goals sometimes,

to me, goal is kind of a setpoint and gain is kind of a

growing thing. And I'd like to be about that and I love

what you're sharing here because it helps people get

this process and helps give us at least some opportunity

for people to apply reason. You know, I come from the

world religion I'm a pastor, and but I come from a tradition

and where we use for in my Protestant particular flavor

of Protestantism we use for what we call the quadrilateral

a little bit trialing like to tranferred and it's applying to

your life to have a healthy life. Scripture as of as a

source of authority experience kind of the emotional

thing. Tradition kind of will be the best that we bring

from our past but also a reason using your head,

there's no reason to check your head at the door.

We call it the quadrilateral versus tradition and I

love that can be applied here as well. I think you've

given us some great things, some great tools to work

with. And you've told us a story of transformation

that's always looking for your own personal transformation

and how that applies to others. And you got some good

stuff to be helpful here to to other folks, Travis. So how

folks get in contact with you or get your book or learn

more about you? How can folks that-

Thank you, Brad, we made it real easy, all

you have to do is go to www.restoringreason.com.

If you go to restoring reason.com, there you can download

the first chapter of the book for free, no strings attached.

That's what I recommend because at the very least you'll

get value from that book and you'll at least know the direction

it's going and then be able to make a better informed and

reasonable decision if it's information for you.

Hopefully, you don't miss that decision purely on emotion.

Here we go. Good stuff. Well, we thank you for being

our guest today here on the Beyond Adversity podcasts.

We're all about helping you to grow through what you

go through. Our guest today on Beyond Adversity,

Dr. Travis Corcoran, the author of Restoring Reason using

the ancient liberal arts to defend against modern manipulations.

Thank you Travis for being our guest today.