202: Discover the Key Within to Unlock Your Best Life with Ann Papayoti the author of “The Gift of Shift”

We have Ann Papayoti with us. She has Sky View Coaching, which is all

about helping you through the storms of life. But today we're really going

to key in on her new book is called The Gift of Shift, which is discovering

the keys within you to unlock your best life. It's all about how you can

embrace wrapped gifts in your life, and to adapt them in spite of the

hardships and challenges that she has had. And you have had, that

she's had a number, I'll let her unpack the situations the challenges

that she's had in life, but we all have them. And she has had them

as well. And getting through them is the key to shift. So, Ann Papayoti,

welcome to Beyond Adversity.

Thank you, Brad, I'm so happy to be here with you today.

It is indeed an honor. I've looked through your material, and you have had

a number of challenges in your life. This podcast is all about facing the

reality that people have all kinds of difficulties that they deal with. It is

a given in life that we have adversity. And yet some people get stuck.

Some people go into a downward spiral, and they go into self destructive

patterns. We all have to face adversity, we have to make choices. And

so let's hear a little bit about your situation, the circumstances that led

you to face some challenges in your life. And that led you eventually to

writing this book to The Gift of Shift. Tell us a bit about your background

give us context for our conversation today.

Absolutely. Well, unlike many people, perhaps that you may talk with

about their adversity, I had a happy childhood. I was happy go lucky.

Everything was great. I had my life planned out. You know, great parents,

good upbringing, I grew up in church, I'm from Alabama, I originally had a

Southern Baptist kind of background and, and thought life in that realm.

And until things did get turned upside down, and that started when I was

about 20 years old. And it was from the betrayal of a friend. Betrayal is

one of those most hurtful human experiences we can go through because

everything we thought we knew to be true is turned upside down. So as

my best friend and the betrayal of my best friend was deliberate, and it

was with the young man I thought I was going to marry. So I lost the two

people closest to me at the same time, and I lost them to one another. So

everything that I knew from childhood that had been, as I said, happy, carefree,

without adversity was now just completely confusing. Because I was taught the

golden rule. I thought that I was good to people, people would be good to me. I

thought that life was gonna turn out as it was planned. I also learned in childhood

that when there was adversity, someone helped you resolve it, even went to the

principal's office helps you reset, the teacher set you down, the parents set you

down. There was no resolving this, there was no let's sit down and figure it out.

Therefore I made it about me. So what was wrong with me that I was not good

enough as a friend or I was not good enough on some level. What did I do?

The lesson that I learned eventually was that in anything anyone says or does,

it's about them, but I personalized it. I made myself a victim of someone else's

actions. So the hurt, it hurt, Betrayal hurts, but I prolonged the hurt. And another

lesson that I learned is that pain is inevitable in life, as you were saying we're all

gonna go through things. The suffering is optional, but I prolonged my suffering

from this betrayal. And I was a walking talking wound for a long time. And then

the betrayal became self betrayal. So it's something you were alluding to earlier.

My actions became self punishing, because I made it about me. And I said,

What's wrong with you? You must not be good enough on some level for the

people closest to you to turn against you. I felt like I was drowning because I

was so confused about what was happening in my life. I started doing what

I call the overs and unders, Brad, overdrinking, overeating, underperforming,

and underachieving at school. I went from someone who had life planned out

had always been the good student, the good girl to the opposites. And

I guess in a way I and I started hiding from God kind Like, if behind the big

because I was in, then I felt shame. So my license, I knew it was completely

gone. Now eventually, I started picking myself up, I started taking some

kind of responsibility for my life. And I said, I gotta get out of here. This isn't

good. And so one chapter in the book is called The Gift of the Bandaid because

we have to cooperate with time for healing. And so I said, I have to stop exposing

my wound to that which keeps hurting me. So I changed schools, changed

environments, got around different friends, because the people who love me

kind of kept the wind alive by saying, I can't believe they did that to you.

Just get over it, you know, things that weren't really helpful to me. So I did,

I took some actions. And I know you're all about action, Brad. I took some

actions that looks like the right things. And they were on a lot of levels,

but there was still a hole inside me. And I hate that line, in the Jerry Maguire

movie. You know, you complete me. That led to that next thing. So what

happened was while I looked like I was coming out of it, I lost weight,

got my you know, started making better choices in life, finished

school at a different university, got a good job.

I ran into the next relationship. And that next relationship was

someone who knew us all back when. There because there was

a hole in me. There was a needy heart I had not fulfilled myself.

I needed to hear what he had to say. He said, he built me up with

his words, he filled that hole in my heart. And I felt like I was completed.

And it felt like what it felt like, love. Because I thought this was love.

I had loved her. I loved him, and that was desecrated. That must not have

been like, Well, this must be love. And it was again, a very confusing time in

my life. Well, unfortunately, he happened to be a narcissist. And those of us

who know about narcissistic relationships or in relation with them, they idolize

you at first, so they'll be up only eventually to tear me down. So that led to an

abusive unhealthy marriage, where I felt like I was just thrown overboard again,

drowning, again, lost and the only people who could save me were all these

people who kept betraying me on some level. So eventually, Brad, I had to

figure out how to do it for myself.

Wow. So you had this kind of similar pattern happening here, you had the betrayal with your prior relationship and ended up with a narcissistic relationship with your husband, and you were married to this person?

Yes.

Did that marriage last or not?

It lasted longer than it should have. It lasted eight years, but three months

into the marriage, I knew that I had made a mistake, because that's when

the table's turned. And but here again, now I've lost because I had not

completed myself. There's that hole again, well, it must be me, I made it

about me again, it must be me who's not worthy. it must be me who's not

desirable, it must be me at fault. And so it just solidified the messages from

the previous experience. And here I was lost at sea again. So it took this

experience and I'm going through this again. And I'm just completely lost.

And I describe it as at sea. Because that's what it felt like I would go

underwater, I feel like I was drowning and come up for air just long

enough and get pushed back down.

And I'm sorry, you were lost in the Red Sea. And there's other life

still happens even in that eight years, even when you're lost at sea

life still happens, for instance, whether children are involved with your marriage.

Yes.

So that's just another factor that comes into play here. And other

things happen, job career, other relationships, finances, health

related, all kinds of things come into play. Life happens when you

still have but you still have this underlying issue of how you've dealt

with unhealthy relationships in these patterns that you're in. And so

when you're in something unhealthy and not working, you either stay

stuck in it, or you go into decline, kind of despair and other things that

people go into, or you choose to break out of it and and you choose to

take some actions to get you out of it. So what are some of the things

that you began to do out of all this pattern that you're in, to do something

different to take some actions to break these patterns.

I feel like I was one of these people who my job kept me afloat, because

it was like a life outside of this life. So I was successful at my job. So in a

way, though, it allowed me to stay longer than I should have, and not take

the action necessary to break out of it. So I had this job. And so it gave me

this task of achievement. And so I was succeeding on to the outside world,

everything looks okay. And successful and achieving and then moving forward.

And it reminds me of something I share in the book in the chapter called The Gift

of fluency. Back home in my State of Alabama, my dad taught me how to swim in

late Cosby. But he insisted I learned how to float first. And I remember I was very

impatient with this as a child, because I, I wouldn't learn how to swim because that

man, I could go on the other side of the rope, where the kids could go off the diving

platform and hang out in the urinal in the deeper water and play games. But he said,

No, you're going to learn how to float first because if you only learn how to swim,

you're going to wear out and tire out, and eventually sink, possibly drown. So float

first, I had no idea how important that life lesson would be. What I realized, I was

just going to swimming, swimming, swimming, swimming. And that's what I had

done. After the betrayal, In university, I had slammed to the first vote, because

I was tired. I had a whole inmate right, assigned to the first vote, which was this

relationship that felt like love. Because I hadn't healed myself, I hadn't stopped

and floated and reflected and figured things out, swam to the first boat. So now

here, I'm just going, going, going in my professional life into the outside world.

And even though people were starting to pick on pick up on that, I just ended it,

because it was embarrassing and humiliating that this was how I was living at

home. But the first thing that happened that started waking me up, was I had

a child in the marriage, who was born prematurely, and he passed away at

two weeks of age.

Okay.

And I talked about this in the chapter called The Gift to Charlie Brown. And when

I went through this very deeply personal loss in experience with grief, I realized

that this child came for a reason and I had to find meaning and purpose for his

life. And I failed it. And I found it through an opportunity that came to

speak to a group of resident intern pediatricians, and to bring his story

to them that they could carry with them throughout their careers.

But after he passed, I was I felt God grooming me and preparing me

to bleed my life with more purpose as well. That in that moment, I felt

that God in my son had changed my husband. And so I actually stayed

thinking that part of my child's purpose was to create this change and this

awakening. And it did. For about six months, I would like to think it I'm sure

it changed my ex-husband, I'm sure it changed him on some level, but the

permanence and that I had hoped for was not there.

Okay,

But we can see did another child during this kind of period of respite

and peace. And it was this child and during this child's toddler shift,

I'll call it that I continue to be groomed. I like to say I went to God's

beauty school because I truly thought he was grooming, constantly

grooming preparing me for the act of courage that it would take to

leave my marriage, because the abuse started right away again, while

I was pregnant with with my second son. When he was 22 months old,

as I share in the Gift of Grits chapter. He stood between me and his

six football for father and I'm five foot three if I stretch. And he said

he's 22 months old and says no dada, no. And he says mama dada,

bad mean he called. And I

Yes.

And dramatic dramatic, is sometimes you

have these moments that are just pivotal. They're

just aha moments. What are you gonna call it but

there are moments of enlightenment. And they can come

from any place. Sometimes it's from a song or sometimes it's from

somebody else in their life, or even a book or something.

In this case it was for from your toddler gave you that moment, right?

That's right. And sometimes when we and I knew I was making these

progressive steps of I felt myself being prepared to have that courage.

Right. But I feel like for all of this spread, there's a moment in time when

we're ready for change, that crosses with opportunity. And I talk about in

this scared of heights, and I've talked about in this chapter, it's like I was

on the proverbial diving board. And I'm shivering, it's like, you can't go

back down the ladder. But you're too scared to dive off, right? And

I'm shivering. But in that moment, when my son did that, I dove. unlike

it now. And I dove and I told my husband, he had to leave. And he

laughed at me. And it wasn't an easy transition to to end up going

through divorce with him. But I did it. And you know, it was exhilarating

and frightening at the same time. But I took that dive in that moment

that opportunity presented itself. And that's one thing that I've learned

and these gifts of shift, shifting your perspective and grabbing onto the

opportunity to see things differently, going through the grief with the

death of my first son, but grabbing on to the opportunity that was

presented to give meaning to his life by sharing his story with these

60-70 Pediatricians that we're going to touch so many other families

and knowing that that if nothing else, that that was something that

my son did. And then this opportunity, taking care of using this

opportunity. We have to grab hold the opportunities. But to do that,

Brad, what do we have to do, we have to look up from our pain, we

have to get out of the darkness. And when we do there's light. And

when we see light, we see options. And when we see options,

we have choice. Okay?

Well, let's pause there for a sec, I want to reflect with you just just a

second here and that you have this situation is going to be the death

of a child, which is drama, and one of the deepest levels of stress

anyone can have you have another child, another level of stress.

You have the history of difficult relationships, and you have the

present relationship, which is not good. And you also have, you know,

abuse going on. And we don't need to get all the details of that. But

that must have been horrifying in its own right. And you haven't

mentioned about the physical differences have to be intimidating and

that type of thing. So you have all this going on, which also means you

have all this turmoil in your head. And you also have this history of keeping

the same patterns going on. But the decisions that you made. And let's

just kind of clarify them, you had your aha moment. You've made your

aha moment to move schools, things like that. You had your aha moment

that had to do with you know, this what your toddler child said, to jump

off the diving board moment, then you actually verbalize that. Because

not everybody does that. Some people have that aha moment, then don't

act on it. You have to verbalize that to your ex husband. And then you had

to do whatever steps came next. And you said there's something about

looking up to some illuminating place. And I want to go with you there

for a second. And because we're you know, everybody has pain, but

what to do with it makes a difference. But the transformation takes place,

from not only the external actions that we take, I call that kind of the

physical, but also takes place when we connect with that illumination or

that higher power, or that spiritual enlightenment, whatever it is for each

of us and tell me was that a part of your experience. Some sort of a

spiritual track that help you here? Or tell me about any part of that

kind of a connection to something greater than yourself, that a part

of this transformation process for you?

Absolutely. And there were so many things, I think when I finally

chose to take responsibility for my life, for my own outcomes, and

choose to, rather than see life is happening to me, that happening

for me. What I realized was, I could hear, I could hear a connection

that had always been there that I had sort of filtered out if that

makes sense. Because when I was down and letting at the effects of

life, rather than at the cause of it, when I was at the effect of it and

everything was confusing and dark and I'm underwater. I mean, think

about when you're underwater, everything's muffled. And so when I

was underwater, everything was muffled. So I like I wasn't hearing

God or my spiritual connection or any kind of divine guidance. But

when I stopped holding my breath and surface and literally chose to

say, Okay, I'm going to float like my dad taught me. And I'm going to

reconnect to my breath, to my heartbeat, to who I am at the core,

the truth of who I am, which is, you know, a child of God and who I

was created to be, and I was not created to live this way. I was not

created to suffer. I was created to live my best life and what does that

look like? And I'm responsible for that. And when I did that I could hear

again, and I could connect again. And I noticed and I looked back, I'm like,

wow, you know, it's that hope. But Prince, I was like, this is where he was

always the thing, this, this, this, this, and I could see all the times that

God was with me when I lost my son, when I told my ex to leave, and

my neighbor was outside I tell him the book where I felt angels coming

under my arms and truly lifting me and I saw my neighbor on his deck,

and there was a comfort about knowing there was a witness. And I, the fact

that he was outside smoking his cigar, just gave me peace. And I knew my ex

husband, seeing him also told him, he needed to do what I asked, which was

unusual, you know. So there are just all these different little spiritual connections

in moments that I might have missed, had I've been underwater, and not paid

attention. But again, rising up to the light, they're there, we just have to

notice our lives.

Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. Because that's that connection, we

are disconnected. When we are disconnected from that force, then

everything is muddled. It is you know, you're not floating there, you're

you're sinking. Your metaphor, and but it does take you know, you have

to be open to that connection, you got to do your part to make that

connection happen. And that's awesome. And the other part of this

whole process here, Ann, and I picked it up in what you talk about is

you talk about shift here. You know, shifting from kind of one way

of life to the other, you talk about kind of seeing the gifts and bad

stuff has happened to see the gifts in that in your book. But let's talk

about how that plays out, and how you know how you actually apply

that what I'm talking about here is the cognitive piece, or how you

generate new patterns, new disciplines, new habits in your life, that

help you be a healthier person, and to move forward to the woman

you are now as a coach and as a person who has something to offer

to others. But what are some of the shifts that you made that you

teach others, now? What are some things that you do?

I recognize, first and foremost, that everything was energy, and that

I had to own my thought life. And that even like thoughts are energy

and that they're going to affect everything, and everyone in my realm.

And so when I took responsibility for my life, I had to recognize, like you

said, it's not just actions, but my thoughts, were actually creating how I

feel, and that my feelings or my emotions were dictating what I did or

didn't do, and a lot of by default was to not do. That's why I stayed in the

marriage. So long, right? My default naturally is to go to helpless, hopeless,

defeated. And one thing I had to do was get mad, get mad Brad. And not to

get mad in a way that's rude or ugly, that would be going against my true

nature. And that would also be self-sabotaging and self-defeating. And I've

done enough of that, that I'd get mad long enough to fuel myself out of that

depressive, bottom self loathing place, and get mad and say, I will not live

like this any longer. This is not what I'm called to do. And by doing

you get mad and motivated, but you guys get mad and depressed and

destructive. You get mad and constructive. And that's what I'm talking

about here.

That's right, I used it for fuel, just like now I'm gonna get mad at my

current husband, number two, who's amazing, by the way, but I can

get the weekend, I can be mad at him. And my fuel is I gotta do

something display and I'll go just do the dishes. And it's done. It's not

about not we're human, we're going to experience human emotions.

And when we interpret something as stress, we pretty much have a

default we're either going to feel, you know, defeated, or angry on

some level. It's not about not going there. It's about not getting stuck.

So what I've learned is, after awareness comes choice, and that's self

mastery, Brad, and I have made a commitment to self mastery. To intercept

myself before I take an action or get stuck in an inaction, something apathetic

or lethargic. And I know a lot of people who may be listening who may feel like

they can't affect change in their life. I just can't. And when you think you can't,

you won't. So you have to pull yourself out and you have to get mad long

enough at where you're at just to fuel yourself up, say I'm going to do

something differently. That's responsibility. And that's that first level up

in the light and that first level up in the light of thinking that you're going

to take risk sponsibility for your life allows you to feel what I call the F word

in our business, Brad, and you don't have to bleep me.

I'm not planning on it, but let's lay it out here.

Okay, it's forgiveness. And it's not Mother Teresa level forgiveness, Brad.

It's forgiveness just at the level of letting go. I'm gonna let go of the people,

the places, the things, kind of like I tried to do when I left the university, that

will sink me down into that victim and conflict thought life that creates

those feelings, and therefore the actions or inactions that are not serving

me. So letting go is the lesson. That's the level of forgiveness, even for

yourself, especially for yourself, so that you could cooperate with life, to

create the outcomes that you really, really want and deserve, then you

can move up into loving compassion, and then you can move up into

connection like you're talking about, that's when you can hear and

listen and connect to your higher consciousness, your intuition.

I think the forgiveness piece there. And if you'll allow me, also connect

what you said a second ago about the energy piece. What I mean by

that is, if you are not, if you choose not to forgive, or you allow yourself

to be dissolved into anger, that is destructive, or bitterness, that is

energy depleting, and that just takes you down to a better place. And

really, that's not a good place to be either personally, or in relationship

with others. It doesn't help you build anything new if you're bitter. You

get stuck there as well. To get better means to be forgiving, doesn't

mean you forget it, there's still justice, there's still, you know, all kinds

of other things, accountability, all kinds of things still apply. Forgiveness

doesn't mean being walked over, by the way. It also means to be a strong

person, a strong woman, a strong man, a strong family, a strong marriage,

whatever it is, is a forgiving place. But you also remember and you know,

you can get mad without getting even and all that kind of stuff. So I admire

that. And I just want to commend you on that, because that's a huge shift, as

you say. And then another shift you've made here, I believe, and is what

you teach is how then you shift then to using your experience as fuel

not only for your own healing, and your own self actualization, but also

to serve others. And I sense that you now have a passion about this,

you now have a passion that is based on any emotion in your life

that you have felt some love and some care and some concern

that people have come into your life. Your mission, your current

husband, for instance, I'm sure there's other people have come

into your life have been helpful to you. But something has been

caused you to want to share this with others with your book, and

with your coaching program. So share with us a little about that

about what motivates you to serve other people through this book

and through your coaching and what's a little bit, you've shared

some of the things about your book, but what's involved with it.

You know, when I look back again to childhood, when we would

write in a little school book, my mom kept for me what you wanted

to be when you grew up. It was consistently for the most part teacher,

and sometimes nurse, sometimes, stewardess, I don't know how I knew

what that was, because I've never flown to lighter, but I did become a

flight attendant and ended up with a 17 year airline career. But even in

that I was trained to save lives, right, as a lifeguard, after becoming a

swimmer that have sort of trained to save lives Teacher, I'm doing all

that now. But I also see how God works in my life. You take me down a

path, it wasn't the direct path that I thought I'd be in fourth grade at the

blackboard. That got to me down a different path. I was in training and

facilitation with the airline, eventually. And when I went to support group

for separation divorce for myself, which was one of the actions I did to

help myself heal. They tapped into me to take it over. I started serving

in that way 25 some odd years ago and still do lead support groups for

the community. And I recognized that I wasn't fully healed when I started

but you cannot help but help yourself when you help someone else. And it

started that way. And then through life as I gave up my corporate career

to move out of the country to Canada at some point for my now husband

to pursue his career on a different scale. I found myself at home as a stay

at home mom and I had to wrestle again with change in transition and

loss and grieving but also choice and I chose joy in that. And it was a

wrestle. It's a little dance between joy and fear. What am I doing Here

I go, What if this doesn't work out, but I chose it, that in that came

opportunity. Again, we spoke about Greg. And the opportunity was

to serve in a new way. And that was to work with personal development

for adults. And everybody wanted a little more of me and a little more

of me, and they wanted that one on one time. And so I then became a

coach. But what I've learned is, and I love this, quote. "Tell this story of

the mountain you climbed, it may become a page in someone else's

Survival Guide." And that's when I decided, okay, this is what people

are saying they want for me, I'm gonna do that. I'm hearing you I can

hear now, God, this is where I'm at. And I realized that life can be

challenging, it still has been challenging for me. I had another son

in my second marriage diagnosed with epilepsy and high functioning

Asperger's had lots of social and academic challenges.

But challenges, the adversities, don't quit.

They don't quit. But learning how to respond to them rather than

react to come from that higher energetic perspective and noticing

the resilience and that I've learned to how to overcome adversity,

go beyond it and not get stuck in it, as you say, which I love. But

through this, I've learned that this is where I belong, helping people if

somebody called me I'm a flashlight on their path. I've just been down

at ahead of many people still go through some of my I still have to work

through I think we're all a work in progress on some level. But I do

believe this is where

what tell us about you, you have a coaching program, skyviewcoaching.com, and

you have your book, The Gift of Shift. And so folks, I will put connections to all

that at our website, dr.bradmiller.com, tell us what a story about someone

who's connected with you, through your coaching, through your book, or

some connection that you have, that you've seen some sort of

transformation, and let's hear a testimonial story.

Oh, absolutely. I've met a lot of people in what I would call or they

would call survival mode. So many of their stories sounds similar in

the beginning, but someone that I that's coming to mind, I'll refer to

them as D came to me in a job that they were miserable in. But they

were also going through a relationship breakup at the time. And they

were just lost, they felt sad. And this would be a word they describe, they

felt alone. And they really, really did not know what they wanted. And so

working together, we figured out really what, who she was, and in what

she wanted. And then she was able to make different choices, change

jobs, change careers, totally a whole different path. And then let go of this

love, redefined love, actually, and recognize some patterns in relationships

that were not serving her. And let's fast forward a couple of years, she's now

in a very healthy, stable relationship, this new career. And she's very happy.

So I think the lesson is always in being able to have awareness, recognize

choice, and letting go of what does it serve. And that's an example of a

typical client really struggling in that water meeting to learn how to

reflect and float, and then recognizing kind of reconnecting to who they are.

That's an affirmation to you and what your work is, as well. And so let's

just say there's a D out there listening to our conversation here, what are

they going to find it skyviewcoaching.com? Or if they pick up your book,

The Gift of Shift, what are they going to find is going to be helpful to them.

I think what you're going to find, and let's just talk about the gift of shift for

a minute, because it's different than your typical self-help book. I think a lot

of people get overwhelmed with academia. And they'll give up with these

books, even though they're well intended. The Gift of Shift is a collection of short,

personal, sometimes intimate stories. And they're told in a way for the reader to

connect to the theme of the story. While your story will be different after each

story or five coaching questions. And the goal of those questions is for the

reader to reflect on how that thing has played out in their life and be reminded

of a time where they had a success, where there was a strength or something

about them that they got through that because we forget our successes for it.

So they can use that now to overcome an adversity that they're going through,

or recognize how they may still be stuck in a story and use those questions to

start creating a momentum so they can create a shift and start working through

that and come out on the other side. So that's what they're going to find in The

Gift of Shift. 12 common life themes we've all been through, you know. Everything

we've had through grief, we've experienced betrayal. In some level in our life,

we've all had to hold on to hope or find courage or figure out a way to be true

to ourselves or quiet that inner critical voice. So I think they'll find The Gift

of Shift helpful. And on my website, they can sign up for my newsletter,

they can connect to me for one on one or small group coaching or find

some kind of group class they might be interested in.

Several opportunities here. Incredible story that is a common story really,

in many ways, people, everyone's felt betrayal. Many people have felt abuse,

it is epidemic, as you know, and many in many people's lives. And you know,

even though the losses that you've had, and dealing with Z's that you've had

to deal with are common themes. We all got to deal with them and you give

us some tools to do just that. And I love the the two metaphors that you use

the most. Are you using your book about opening gifts that may be kind of

unexpected gifts out of the pain, out of the kind of serendipitous type of

experience that you would have of opening a gift that is not expected to be

helpful to you but it is. So the gift and then the shift, to shift to meet Jay says

they actually you got to take some action to do that to unlock your best life.

Her book is The Gift of Shift, discover the key within to unlock your best life.

And her coaching program is at skyviewcoaching.com. Her name is Ann

Papayoti. Ann Papayoti, we thank you for being our guest today and on the

Beyond Adversity podcast.