166: The Price of Pursuing The American Dream with Martin Sawa

The price of pursuing the American dream with Martin Sawa the author of the other side

of success on episode number 166 of the beyond adversity podcast with Dr. Brad Miller.

It always means putting something at stake and having downside risk. So if you don't

achieve your goal, there is a penalty or consequence. If you don't have that, then when

you're unmotivated, to kind of liberates you to do the things you shouldn't do.

Hello, good people. And welcome to the beyond adversity podcast with Dr. Brad Miller.

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It is my pleasure to welcome you to this podcast where we specialize in helping you to

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grow through what you go through. That is we help you to deal with adversity in your life

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and to get beyond it and to achieve your life of peace, prosperity, and purpose. You can

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always go to our archives of podcast episodes, we have over 160 episodes at Dr. Brad

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Miller.com. There you can find great insights from doctors and psychologists and

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teachers and business people and physicians and great thinkers in the area of helping

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you to process and to have a way to get through whatever it is you're going through. To

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come out to a better place. You can head to Dr. Brad Miller.com we've got a free gift for

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you there that can be helpful to you. And we look to speak into your life to help you to

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navigate beyond adversity to your life, peace, prosperity, and purpose. Today we have a

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great guest with us. He is an author. And he comes to us from the business world,

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particularly from the world of real estate, commercial real estate where he had quite a

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successful career. But he's speaking now not only about his success in the real estate

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world, but his success in dealing with difficulties in life to achieving the American dream

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but what price he had to pay to achieve the American dream and how he has come

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through that to a much better place in his life. His name is Martin Sawa. And he is a first

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generation Ukrainian American, which comes with it some issues regarding immigration

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and his folks, his parents who had escaped Nazi-ism in Ukraine in order to establish a

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life here and how he and his life then eventually navigated his way to San Francisco,

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where he became a player in the real estate market and became quite successful in

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commercial real estate. He was a self-made man. But he came from humble

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beginnings. But in his life, he had some devastating loss. He lost his wife, He

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descended into alcoholism. He had many other issues he had to face in his life, in order

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to come through that. In his life, he had transitions in his business world. And he took a

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risk in many things. In fact, he's going to talk about putting skin in the game. We had a

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great conversation here today. And he's talking about the demands of his life and career

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and how it all came, came crashing down on him and he had to rebuild his life. The

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book is called the other side of success, money and meaning the Golden State. And it's

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really an account of his experiences of moving from an emigrant to success, dealing

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with tragedy and coming through that in a healthy way. And it is about he'll talks about

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how he was driven in his life. But he found spirituality. He found relationships. He found

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other things to get him through, hold himself out of addiction and personal tragedy to

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arrive at a state of peace, prosperity, and purpose. He blogs at Martin sawa.com

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you're gonna love this conversation here on the beyond adversity podcast with Dr. Brad

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Miller. So let's get into that conversation. Right now. Our special guest today is Martin

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Sawa. He is the author of the other side of success, money and meaning and the

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Golden State. And he had been very successful in the real estate world. And so many

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people say he's achieved the American dream. But to get there, it's been quite a story.

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We're going to get into the details of that. He's an immigrant person. He's had all kinds

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of challenges in his life, home life and financial and in the business world, and other

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things, other things in his life. He's got a fascinating story to tell. We're going to get into

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it right now. He's going to help us to find meaningfulness in making money. Our guest

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today, Martin Sawa. Martin, welcome to the Welcome to the podcast today.

Hi, Dr. Brad Miller. And thanks so much for having me on.

Well, it's quite an honor to have you here on beyond adversity. And we've mentioned

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here in the introduction, you quite a success, the real estate world. And yet, your story is

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an incredible story of not only your personal story, but your family's history in Europe,

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about how you have had faced some challenges to get to success. And then after

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success, you've had some challenges too. And just tell us a little bit about your

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background story, where you who you the family, you come from some of the things that

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they face and you faced and where we stand now.

My parents grew up in the outskirts of a city in Ukraine. And this was the years before

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and during the Second World War. So they lived under Stalin and under Hitler. And in

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terms of adversity, I don't think it gets any worse than that. They watched a lot of their

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friends die, be deported to camps. They escaped with their wives, and then wandered

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around Eastern Europe working day to day before the war, and then they spent four

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years in displaced persons camp and asked me before they were allowed to immigrate

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to America, I was actually conceived in one of the camps and then birth it on US soil.

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So I grew up in a small town in the Midwest. And after high school, moved to Chicago,

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and went to college, and then after college, I moved out west to California to make my

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fortune. And I scroll forward about 10 years, I was married at the time, my wife was

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pregnant, I was commuting 40 miles to a job, I hate it. And I was dead broke. So I had a

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decision to make. And I quit my job and swore I would never go back without a wife.

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And I got a real estate license and got into the world of commercial real estate, as a

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broker. And I sold investment properties, which is the most challenging way to get in

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because at that time, it took months to put a deal together. And then you have to wait

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until it calls to get paid if it caused at all. So it was what took about a year before I got

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my first commission check. But then I was able to start paying off my bills. And I moved

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to a firm in San Francisco and over the next 10 years went up the ladder. Now I was at

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the top of the game so to speak in terms of brokerage. I met my second wife. And she

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had what I would call charisma in biblical sense and powers in what is called the world

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of the unseen and became my spiritual mentor as well as my moral compass. Good wife

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model. One night she got down. My wife changed after that. There was no way to really

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describe all their fields. And so I regrouped. And over time, went back to work. became

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developer with a partner. We had some major projects in downtown San Francisco. I

been fortunate enough to be able to do some writing, and thinking, and working on

personal projects, helping others achieve success. And in the last, over the last few

years, I have worked on my memoir, the other side of success, money and the meaning

and the Golden State, which reckons in my adventures, both in my business life and in

my personal life.

So you've had

brought us here together

Absolutely. And certainly it is thematic for what we like to talk about here on beyond

adversity, we really believe that people love face have kind of I call them the five D’s or

the five categories of adversity one of them is, and I think your story kind of touches on

all of them one way or another. One is depression and another one is divorce or

relationship issues. Another one is a disease, you know, COVID crisis we're going

through right now. The other one is debt or money issues. Another one is death, you

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know, either death of a loved one or someone in our life, when do we deal with those?

sometimes not so good, and sometimes have a process to get through that. And we'll

talk for a few minutes about your process. But you really hit some of the highest of the

highs of the business world and the lows of the lows in your personal life. And I know

that you even part of what the theme of what you're talking about here is those high

places in the business world aren't all they're cracked up to be. Is that a fair thing to

say? Or you had your challenges there as well in the business? Do you have any

success in business?

Yes. Just as an aside, I would like to add a six d to the west.

All right, good.

I think I experienced all five multiple times. The sixth I would call degree. And guess the

degree within that category of the adversity

Yes. So say more about that. What do you mean, when you say degree? could you

please go deeper, please?

Well, you can experience death. But it can be the death of a loved one. You've had time

to tie all the loose ends with the way to an advanced age is part of the passing process.

Or you can experience the death of a child at a young age to a violence circumstances.

And they're quite out, though. They're both about that. But they're quantifiably different

experiences.

that's very insightful and helpful. And it seems to me that you have been working very

hard through your memoir, your book here. And so the things you're really doing a

processing the things that you have had success with and got through and developing

your thinking towards this, and just like to ask you, Martin, what are you mentioned least

one of them, but I would like you to unpack for us. What do you think are some of the

actions that you took, that helped you to process this rather than being stuck? You

know, you're part of what I like to do is help people to get unstuck from wherever they're

at. And you probably you and I probably know, people who've been stuck, you had a

bad job or a bad marriage or in depression, something like that. What are some things

you did to help you to take some action to break some patterns there? What are some

actions that you took?

In the world of business, it's very competitive. And, again, it's an arena for combat. And

it's sort of neutral. It's what you make of it and what your actions are. So I would say the

first step was to, I didn't like the job I had. And I didn't have couldn't support my family.

And I reasoned that I really needed to become an entrepreneur, well, which essentially,

is what I was, what was always an independent contractor life. And then I took

responsibility for them. And, you know, the technical aspects, one could pick up pretty

quickly, or in today's world, watch some webinars or whatever, but it's really the desire

and the drive to succeed at all costs. There's a Japanese proverb that goes false down

seven times get up eight. And that's really the mind form in the world of business. And

but as one achieves success, it's always at a cost. There's always a flip side. And

people see very wealthy people or celebrities, whatever can be saved on social media.

And boy, these people have no problems, then pay a price or whatever. And it's just

because these people can afford publicity things, right? Who sometimes it's just a thing,

sometimes the thick layer makeup, sometimes physically, but also in terms of their

Images have been big, caked-on and that's the thing.

In my case, I had a problem with alcohol ever since I was a little kid. Tell them we grew

Of course what most a lot not a lot of heavy-duty drinking was going on sounds

We do. You can avoid alcohol. Can’t really come into the vernacular, your was your to

physically drink. But it caught up with me later in life as I was building deals and flying

cities internationally and going to no words, then all of that came to the point. And the

incidents are described, good for him in the book. Where my marriage with my second

life there it was either I had to stop it, or whatnot. And that was it. So I made a decision.

And I dealt with the alcohol and then went on but as I found out all through my life, that

doesn't mean your problems won't end. It's always a continuing series of challenges.

And the more you push yourself, whether in business or in life and raise the stakes, the

more you will be tested. That's just the way it is.

But you've mentioned two or three actions that you took, and I just wanted to kind of

reflect with you what I'm hearing, you say, aging, you left your first job, do you become

an entrepreneur into the real estate world, and because of circumstances that you had

and not having enough money and so on. Then you left eventually when you had

success. You eventually left that didn't do what you're doing basic now become a writer

and a people, a coach, as it were to help others. And then also when you had the death

of your wife, you had to deal with that deal with the grief. And then you also had to deal

with the alcoholism, you took some steps to deal with those. And that's an awesome

thing. And I commend you on that. And yet you are also very mindful of all those ups

and downs and all this is a difficult journey. And on this journey of processing adversity

to get past into a better place, it's hard to do it on your own. I just wonder you

mentioned that your wife, your second wife who passed away so early in life was a

woman of faith and help to also keep you on the straight and narrow they guess how

you put it, say a word about two things about relationships with people who can help

you keep on the straight and narrow or help you keep some of have accountability, and

then anything having to do with connecting to a higher power, whether it's a faith

situation or meditation, or something beyond yourself, you say a little bit about those

things, if they were factors in how you travel this road

of faith has always been a part of my life. My parents came from a place that was

subject to totalitarian regimes where the first thing one does is establish an atheistic

state. Well, there's no question on who one believes. So when I grew up in this little

town in Wisconsin, we were Roman Catholic. I was an altar boy in grade school. I went

to a Jesuit High School, which happened to be conveniently located in the town. It was

a boarding school, that I went as a town student to learn far more in high school than

ever and then bounce back. Then after I left town and did go to college. The features

were the practice of faith just started to fade away. And I think this was there was no big

moment. No, it's just the secularization of this country over the last 15 years. And I kind

of went along with it. There was never a point where I, I didn't believe, but I just, I didn't

practice and it didn't affect my life. After my wife passed, I was alone. And would my

spiritual mentor is gone. And I turned back to my faith. To deal with the grief, I practice

Zen meditation. I studied Judaism, I studied, the depth practices of other religions

eventually came to where I decided to go to a retreat, it was at a Jesuit retreat facility

here in the San Francisco Bay Area. I was nestled in the hills, right in Silicon Valley,

right above the mansions of the tech moguls. And there was there that I made a

commitment to go back to the original practice of my Catholic faith. So I ended steps to

do that, and have been doing that ever since.

That's awesome. say more about, I just feel like your wife. And there's been some other

people have maybe spoken to your life, maybe through these retreats and things like

that, who helped help hold you accountable through some of these ups and downs, I'm

thinking your time of alcoholism and your time of making some really hard decisions to

leave, I believe that you had been quite successful in the business, that real estate

world into leave that had to be, I imagined, so people were saying, What are you doing,

man? What are you doing, Martin? That kind of thing was going on. But how were

relationships? mostly good, but perhaps even some challenging a part of the process of

being helpful to you? Or what part did they play?

The book itself took me a while to organize the structure. But it's sort of alternating

between my business life and my personal life. And you're one person and it's one

brain, one personality, but I kind of compartmentalize and thought if I could manage

each one, by itself, the one-man problem becomes there, there are no core values to

align you in the world of business. So when you go astray, you have to have some

ability to align it with the core values which come on the personal side, and come

through the religious practice of faith and come through other means, so to speak. So

my second wife was hugely instrumental in that, in addition, and

In addition, I formed a relationship with a psychic medium. And I'm not here to convince

your listeners on this whole subject matter. Suffice it to say that I was a hardened

skeptic. And in business, I dealt with people's names you see in the paper, and masters

of illusion when it comes to making money. And I came to the conclusion that there's a

small, tiny handful of people who have the ability to access information through

unexplainable means. And it's up to the individual to determine how they do it if they

can ever determine, but the proof is always in the pudding if I get practical results. So I

made that decision to to to use that resource and use it sparingly and wisely and really,

it was Mary Jo. Both Anita and I have known her for about five years before I need a

pass and after Nina did pass, she was the most instrumental factor in dealing with me

Before moving on, and I learned that love can survive physical death.

I think gives you a kind of a connection as it were. Thread as it were through some of

the other things we've talked about, about grief and success and hard decisions to

leave careers and deal with the success sets because success is hard to deal with. And

what you say in your book is you want to find meaningfulness in this life, and that's a

search, I think we all have is to find meaningfulness. And I believe a part of that has to

do with what we've talked about here, that emotional thing, that relationship, I believe

there's a spiritual element, there's the element kind of almost a physical, the taking

action piece when there's many people gets stuck by just not taking action. But I think

another part of the kind of the cognitive, or the kind of everyday piece is what are our

habits or disciplines. Or what are we doing now that we didn't do before. So what I'd like

for you to speak if you went to any part of your life, any habits or disciplines, old

practices, especially things you may teach in your book, that can be helpful to us in

terms of having meaningfulness in life and having success.

Though, it's always helpful to have a mentor, boy who has your best interest of hearts,

and his profession, in whatever is the specific subject area you want to get help in,

which is not always easy, because even family and friends oftentimes won't have the

best interest. So I’m pretty self-directed. So I try to figure out how I needed to address

the problem, what my tangible goal was a tangible, measurable goal

find the perfect mate or whatever, tantrum, Pacific ball. So in the case of alcoholism, I

dealt with what I call a control program of moderation. I would stop, or I go, maybe days,

even weeks without breaking. And then if I had the urge, I would have a beer to really

more than three. And that way I was able to function and not feel like my dad did, who

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went cold turkey to a tremendous after well, but then know how to fill the hole became

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somber and morose for the rest of his life. So it's finding kind of what works for you.

When I talk to people, and they asked my advice, In general, the first question I asked

them is what do you believe to be true? Okay, again, this is from the top down. If you

believe life starts at zero, and infancy, then that's fine. To be true to yourself, you're

going a certain way. And you may achieve great success and be an asshole, but not

caring. Because that's your voice. Is that your worldview? But if you believe there's

more than that, and what is it you believe in giveaway them in a personal God before

even the power of prayer, listening. And as you assemble your tools, and it comes down

to practice, religion what happens to the line, the ritual is the vast shares always the

atonement, the confession, you treat these things seriously. You develop a personal plan.

That's part of your process is the practice, how you apply these things to your life. And

one of the things I saw in my notes here is the theme of your book and of, having

meaning most in your life is to have skin in the game, in business, and in life. Unpack

that for us a little bit. But I think it's a part of your process. If I'm understanding you,

Martin, part of your process is to invest to get a return. So tell us what you mean by that

in terms of business and in your meaningfulness of life.

It's kind of game is a central theme of the book. In business, it means risking your time

your mining your reputation, and further and silver for your business goals. But in life,

that always means putting something at stake and having downside risk. So if you don't

achieve your goal, there is a penalty or consequence to be paid. If you don't have that,

then when you're unmotivated, and it kind of liberates you to do things you shouldn't do.

And that's what you see what a lot of the internet trolls are, they're anonymous. So they

Can take somebody down, destroy their life. But if they're unsuccessful or caught,

there's no punishment. They have nothing on the downside, so it just scores me even

more. So that's what I mean by the skin in the game.

Very good that I think it's helpful to know you got to you know, you got to risk something

in order to get to gain something, it's not just you know, the bottom line, money-wise, it

is the bottom line of your life. And one of the things you've done is you've put yourself

out there by writing a book. Writing a book is a vulnerable thing to do. It's an intense

thing to do. It's something where you're saying, here's my story, but also here is what I

can share with you. How you can make some changes in your life as well. And I think

it's getting to know you, it's a part of your heart is to help serve other people. So tell us a

little bit about how your book or your teaching have to serve someone else. Maybe

someone you know personally or coach or part of your business, maybe someone who

read your book. Can you tell us about some situations where you've been influential,

someone where you've been able to take your life lessons, and then be helpful to someone else.

I brought my business career. I've mentored protegees. So the book reveals how I dealt

with that and how I made them put skin in the game and their eventual success. But I

think the most compelling story is the work I did with my stepson. And this was later in

my final marriage after my wife passed, then he was by at the time in his mid-20s. He

was a young black man living in Jackson, Mississippi. He was between a paraplegic

and a quadriplegic as a result of a childhood car accident. He was on pain medication,

doing other drugs just to stay coherent. That's adversity. I mean, compared to what I

would, like, right? point a much more compelling. So I thought, I took it as a challenge to

see how he could improve his life. And I wouldn't be able to offer advice and never to

tell him what to do. But I had some definite ideas that I had accumulated over the years.

So we set about that, and the outcome is today. He is no good. By the way, he finished

high school, but he had no other professional training time. Today, he is a DevOps

Engineer while he owns a new home. He made sure that investments in oil were safe

physically, financially, and otherwise independent lifestyle. That's like a quantum. And that's a success.

Oh, absolutely. That's a great story. Because I'm sure you care about the people read

your book and you care about the people you've mentored in business and prodigies as

you say, but this is family. This is someone that you have a connection with that goes,

deeper than those other connections that you have and make all the difference in the world.

Well, there's the element of a personal challenge. I know what worked for me. But then

what would work for other people? And so I had to test them. And it's the practical result

against specific tangible goals with measurable outcomes.

which outlines your process and that's what we're all about here is to have people, how

people can get stuck in adversity, whatever it is, but in order to get out of it, to get

beyond it. It doesn't often happen a snap of the fingers you got to have a process and

what I love about what you teach us here in your Book is the other side of success is

about that process of getting through that. Before we close here Martin, are there any

other things that you just want to share that are really on your heart that you'd want to

share with our audience here today that can be something they can just take with them

a nugget they can take with them?

Well, obviously, I'd appreciate it if you took the time to get my book and read it. The

easiest way to do that is just go on my website Martinsawa.com. And there was one

quote you can buy it from Amazon or the bookseller of your choice. You can check me

out on social media. And you can scroll down to the bottom and send me an email and I

love to hear from my readers, and wants to hear their individual success stories.