156. Whats Next When Disaster Strikes Your Family with Dr. David Phelps the author of “What’s Your Next?: The Blueprint for Creating Your Freedom Lifestyle”

Dr. Brad Miller here with you on beyond

adversity the podcast where we help you to navigate adverse

conditions in your life and to emerge with freedom and with

victory. And we do that by having teaching and leadership

and talking with people who have had their own sets of challenges

to overcome, and can help you in certain aspects of life to

navigate those. And that's the case today. Dr. David Phelps is

our special guest here on beyond adversity. He is managed and had

a private dental practice for 21 years. And he also got involved

with investing in real estate, joint venture with his father

and, and they became quite successful at those aspects in

life. And life was good life was perkin, along until he had a

episode happen, which kind of caused his world to come

crashing down. And that's what we're going to talk about here

for a few minutes. his upcoming book is called what's your next,

the blueprint for creating your freedom lifestyle? You can find

him at Dr. phelps.com. Our guest today on beyond adversity, Dr.

David Phelps. Welcome,

Brad. Greg, glad to be here. Thank you for having

me today. Awesome.

So glad to have you with us here today. And, and

your book is going to be a story and a process for helping people

to succeed, freedom and financial and so on, and some

aspects of that. But I also know that you had a turning point in

your life, and our audience is all about helping people to

navigate adverse conditions. So I'd like to tell you a little

bit about your story, how, you know, maybe a little bit how you

got the dental practice. But what came what was a turning

point in your life to help you dictate this, this road towards

writing and leadership into your teaching your freedom?

Yeah, Brad, you know, I grew up in a very strong

Christian family, a mother and father who stayed together, I

certainly would not without typical conflict. But I was the

eldest of, of with two other siblings to two younger sisters.

And, gosh, looking back with what I know, today, had a pretty

good lifestyle, responsible family, not entitled family, but

just good foundations. And so I never really had the

opportunity. And I and he's this opportunity to experience any

real, serious setbacks in my life as a young person. Life

Life was good enough, I didn't have to work hard and do things

through school, and I wasn't, you know, a super gifted

athlete, or super, super gifted intellectual, I had to work. But

nevertheless, looking back on my life, it was it was a good life.

And so I went into my adult life, after Training College and

dental school and, you know, got into dentistry. I've always been

a person who has been very curious, you know, outside my,

my focus training. And so, yeah, when I was in college, I was

reading books on, you know, how to be a good steward of your

your investment capital, right. I mean, that's one thing we're

taught is to be a good steward. So I didn't have any of that

time. But I thought, well, I need to think ahead, because

always a long term planner. So I read books about the real estate

and real books about stock market. And I thought real

estate makes sense. So I kind of do things in tandem, I got

started in practicing dentistry. And I also started learning how

to invest in real estate. Probably a little too much to

take on, but I was early married, but but no children for

the first nine years on purpose. So that gave me a little bit of

chance to focus on those things that maybe I wouldn't have had,

I started early with children. At 32, my wife and I, and such a

blessing. age two and a half, she is diagnosed with high risk

leukemia. so so good, this is something I hadn't faced with

my, with my family, at least not with my family of origin. And so

I was I was kind of in denial, which I think probably is not

not uncommon to go into denial, particularly for someone like

me, who always thought I had control that as long as I was a

hard worker, and I did the right thing that I could control. I

was gonna have the perfect life, the perfect family, it was going

to be all good. Well, this this blew it did blow up my world.

And without going into great detail, you can ask any

questions today as you wish that would help your listeners but my

daughter, our daughter, our daughter, Jennifer survived

leukemia is three years of God just call it hell on earth. You

don't know what you don't know. People that are listening today

probably have similar circumstances that they were

thrown under and you have no training for this. So our

marriage to Jenna's mother didn't survive that. No, there's

no blame. There is absolute no blame. In fact, today I I

acknowledge Jen's mother as really her primary advocate that

probably saved her life going through all the treatment of

hospitalizations. So we we figured out how to be a co

parents in a world where we were no longer living together. So

that's the good thing that came out of that part of the while

that first adversity, it also it also shook me up a little bit,

not completely. You guys kind of got back to the old David, where

I just kind I've dug back in and I'm going to build back up and

I'm going to be successful again and no financial issues aside,

I'm going to get back and do it again. And then Jana was not

through with her health issues. See, she's suffered uncontrolled

epileptic seizures for a number of years, while she was between

the ages of eight and 12. And at age 12, she ended up in end

stage liver failure, a combination of all the

chemotherapy she had, during her years of leukemia treatment, and

also the seizure medications, the combination caused her liver

to go into breakdown. And so at age 12, she needs a liver. And

it was during the time that she was in the hospital recovering,

which was not easy. It's not you don't go in go out that I really

had time to reflect. Really, probably when the first times in

many years, I had time to actually be quiet. And this is

gonna be part of your question. So I won't go deep here. But be

quiet and think and reflect. What is this all about? What is

David Phelps all about? What am I really here on earth to do?

Was it the things I thought I was supposed to do? And so I had

a big turning point there. So I'll stop there, because I could

go on. And

that's okay. That's the drama and the trauma that

you experience with your daughter. And then you kind of

multiply that with a divorce and you know, whatever happened

there, and then your own self introspection, just that your

world was rocked wasn't your complacency, whatever was going

on in your world. in your life, you were probably you know, in

some form or another, we're kind of cruising along, you said,

your family of origin. I didn't have any dramatic health issues

or things of this nature. And now you're dealt with this. And

even though you had, you know, I know a dentist isn't exactly an

MD, but still you have a medical orientation. Even with that you

are rocked. So you have to change, you have to do

something. So what are some of the things that you did to help

you change? You said, you talked about having a time of

introspection? What were some of the things that changed you

internally, which then you were then manifested, in terms of how

you sought the freedom lifestyle that you have now?

Well, it changed. It changed my priorities. It

made me really think what is really important. And so often,

I think we all take certain parts of life for granted the

good times the good things, the good relation, whatever we're

blessed to have, we can take it for granted. I certainly did. I

took a lot of things for granted that realize were not under my

control. Some things are some things are, you know, health

situations, maybe Maybe yes, maybe no, this case, Jenna's

health issue was was not anybody's no car, no cars on

anybody's part, it just was a situation there. So I think what

it did for me was was maybe go deep and decide, where did my

focus need to be? Yes, I still have to be responsible

financially. Absolutely. I still have to be able to support my

family, my daughter, but but I was doing it in such a way that

I believe Brad, and I'm probably not a typical a lot of driven

people. But that drive can be what I call today, winning

winning at the wrong game. What your what what what game in

other words, in life in my in my focused on it, I was I was

winning at one game, but I wasn't winning at the right

game, the right game, is I came full circle back round was, was

I needed to to be cognizant of the blessings I had, which was

was was a family where you know, a daughter, her daughter who had

survived some some serious health issues. But that was

God's blessing. You know, that may not happen the next time,

you know, is there gonna be a next time. And so I really had

to decide, where did I need to be showing up? And so I quickly

made a decision that year, that was some 16 years ago, that I

was gonna sell my practice. Now. Yeah. Now, I'm not saying that

that was had had a dramatic thing for you to decide

to do even though you were had some good reasons for it still

had to be a dramatic sign for you.

Yeah, I'm not saying that's easy. I'm not

saying that everybody can do that. And just let go of a

career or responsibility or a business or a job. I'm not

saying that's easy. I fortunately, I did have some

real estate investments I've been building up over the years,

that gave me a little bit of a platform to do that. But I was

not, I was not magnanimously wealthy. It all I had to make

some tough decisions. But, but those types of decisions were

easier because it was about my daughter and realizing that I if

I didn't make some changes, I might miss out completely. So So

I made that decision. While she was in the hospital, I'm gonna

sell this practice. And and so I went forth and did that.

So your drive went from one track to another track,

and it was driven in many ways or that pivot became your

daughter's health issues. And they changed you internally. So

you made that dramatic. I call the bold actions to simply

actions when we take a big shift there. And that means, you know,

sometimes those come crashing down and sometimes they're good,

but they always change us, don't they? They always do always

changes. So let's talk about the changes within you for a second.

How and what we talked about being introspective a minute

ago, David Let's talk about that for a second, let's talk about

the inner life about how you mentioned you had a religious

upbringing, and whatever it was, was there any way that connected

to something beyond yourself, maybe it was a love of your

daughter, maybe it was something else that tell us about any kind

of a source or power greater than yourself, that was a part

of this formation of leading you in the track you're on now.

I think when we are in a position where we

realize some time in our life, that we aren't in control of

everything. And yes, you're right, I came from a religious

background, but my faith had really never been tested. And

therefore I don't think I really had dug down and, and during the

times that Jenna was, you know, in crisis, so not only during

the liver transplant, but with leukemia, she there was times

when she was in a coma, and it was just, you know, that's when

I decided, you know, it's, it's a good time to, to, to, to build

my, to increase my relationship, within my faith with God, and,

and, and to pray and praying, maybe a little bit like

meditation, I look at prayer as, as something that, you know,

we're asking for help and guidance and wisdom and

discernment. But I think as we pray this is just for me, is I

feel like, it's also as we pray, we are also in reflecting,

there's a meditative part of praying, that also changes how

we think. And when we change how we think, then we'll start to,

then we have the opportunity to change how we behave, which

changes therefore our actions, I think it comes from full soccer,

soccer, all around to what you talk about is transformation.

But it starts with how we think and so if you don't change your

thinking about whatever it is you're involved in, or the

adversity you're in, if you don't change what that looks

like, then you may just keep trying to drive through it. And

that's usually not going to probably make a big difference,

in my opinion.

Okay, well, let's talk for, you know, a minute

about relationships, you know, you mentioned about the power of

your relationship with your daughter, how that sort of been

so influential on you. But I think you've I know, part of you

also did some business with your father and things like that. But

transformation takes place in many different forms, including

relationships, sometimes those are even relationships that are,

you know, like books we read, and things like that. But tell

us about influences in your life and support, or even challenges

you may had in relationships that help to form you to

structure you're going yet you have shifted to now, the power

of relationships loving or otherwise.

Right? Fortunately, the majority of my

relationships have been on the positive side, I think that

you're right, there can be certainly toxic relationships

that can hold one bag that can enable behavior, that's not

helping us. But But I had I developed over the years, you

know, some close relationships with, with, with other men in

different disciplines, from different areas, that, that I

look to as mentors. And initially, they were mentors

really kind of on the financial side and business side. But

also, this, and I'm talking about few I'm talking about no

more than a handful, four or five, not a, not 10 or 15, but

four or five, that I had spent time with, and I, you know,

developed a trust, which is I think important to trust,

because not only did I find that they were had wisdom about

certain things about life and finance and business but but

also, as I got to know, this select view that they also had

values about life, and it wasn't all about making money or this

or that, but also it was like how they live their life. And I

think that's important to me, if I'm going to follow advice from

people I want that is closely aligned to what my beliefs are.

So going through those difficult times. It's very important, I

believe that if you don't do it solo, you don't do by yourself,

you need to be able to, to reach out, you need to be able to

express the anx, the the anger, the frustration, the despair,

all those emotions, you've got to be expressed those, because

if you contain them inside, which is typical of people like

me, I suppress, suppress, suppress them, then you harbors

inside and that can do all kinds of negative things. So you've

got to be let that out. But you can only let it out, I think

with people that you have formed those relationships. So having

those few people to talk to during those times when things

were spinning and trying to get some clarity and some

objectivity. Am I doing the right thing? Am I making hasty

decisions was really a big help for me. And I tell people today

that relationship capital is one of most important things we have

in you know, are our assets.

And let's let's talk about assets that a minute

because you're talking about relationship capital being a

great asset. But one of the things we have to do as we

navigate adversity is to understand that there are things

that can keep us stuck that we can get over in a ditch or

something like that in relationships is certainly one

of them. And certainly we can be motivated by some dramatic

events like we've talked about, but there's several different

areas people can get stuck. You know, word living this type of

COVID crisis, some people have gotten really wrapped up and

really caught up in that with, with having their bit being

depressed and other things that are going on other people

actually have to deal with the disease itself. And some people

have been an economic disaster for them. And it's a stress. And

I want to talk to you about some of the things that you have

advocated doing to help people you're the theme of your book is

freedom, right? So freedom when you indicate that we are trying

to moving from stress to freedom. So let's talk about

some of the habits, the practices of it, particularly

your book is focused on personal finances, but debt and finances

is certainly one of those great stressors that people have, it

gets them gets stuck. So let's talk for a minute about some of

the things that you advocate and do that people can begin to

relieve some stresses in their life and to have, among other

things, financial freedom, what are some of the things that you

have?

Well, the first thing that I would say, Brad, is

that many times in life, we feel like, it's just us that, you

know, life is not fair. And what's happening to us, whether

it's decisions we made, didn't make or didn't have any control

over that, you know, it's it's just me, and there's something

wrong with me, and why am I a quote, loser? Because it seems

like the world today, particularly with social media,

is all about, you know, living the big live the good life, and

everybody's just, you know, doing great. You got to be with

people again, with that you trust So, so again, I would say

that, that one of the practices is to, you know, to have a

group, it could be a close inner group of five, or you could be

part of some other community or it could be a mastermind group,

it could be a, you have your own informal, informal board of

advisors, just like big companies have boards, advisor

advisors, you know, who's your informal board, and, you know,

to be a part of a group that really allows you to be

vulnerable. Most of the time, when we, when we show up

somewhere at meetings, or conferences, or industry or

trade association meetings, you kind of have to put on this kind

of ego badge and Buck up and just look like you know, you got

the world by the tail. And that's so often not true.

There's usually something that's nagging something that's not

working out, well, something that's bothering us, but But who

do you talk to about it? And if you again, if you can't express

it, if you're not in a place where you can talk about it, how

can you start to get clarity, when we went through the COVID

shutdown earlier this year, you know, part of the group that I

work with, they are a lot of dentists and medical medical

practitioners. And again, the shutdown that happened that put

them, you know, put their businesses at great risk for

two, two and a half months. It was very stressful. We had zoom

calls, you know, every week where we just got together, we

talked through it, we we brought some industry experts, and at

the end of that period of time, the people that were part of the

group said, this was so inspiring. Yes, it was difficult

at first, yes, we weren't sure we're going to get through it.

But because they were doing it together, finding other people

that are on the same path and not a perfect path, not a path.

It's just directed at pure success. But the step backs the

the switchbacks are things that we deal with in life, we've got

to acknowledge that that's part of life, and it's okay. It's

okay not to have it all figured out. It's okay to have to deal

with these things. We're not alone. The aloneness I think, is

one of the big problems that a lot of people didn't try to take

it on by themselves. And that's, that's really,

really, really so and the group you're a part of

was a solid was a big, big aspect was support was any of

that kind of unaccountability or trying to keep making sure

people were making progress and not being stuck? You know, or

whatever. I was a part of this as well.

Absolutely. Just Yeah, just just clarity about

what steps can be taken right now even because you you can't

do the things you're normally doing. You don't go to work

right now. Because you can't go to work, you're not showing up

your staffs not there, your customers, patients, clients

aren't showing up. So so what what can you be doing right now,

to, to, to do to bridge bridge that gap to when are you going

to go back. So you know, communication, you know, was a

big part, you know, communicating with people, even

if it was virtually just keeping a pulse keeping because, because

we're responsible for a lot of people, ourselves, our families,

but also if you if you have a business, you've got employees,

staff, people, and then of course, your customers, clients,

patients, everybody, you know, was stressed out. And so

stepping up and being leaders, even though we are fraught a lot

of times with, with, with fear, it's saying, look, I need to

step up and be a leader, I don't have to know it all. I don't

have to be perfect, but I just need to be able to be a good

communicator to those that are looking to me to be to be some

kind of leader and we'll do this together, we'll figure it out

together. And I think it was a big part.

And a part of that is being engaged with the

process. And the temptation is to disengage or to to step back,

especially when bad things happen to us adversity happens,

certainly kind of the common adversity of the COVID crisis in

the last year. And so, what we do makes a difference to seek

freedom. So let's what, let's talk some more about your book

then about some of the things that you advocate. What do you

if someone's going to pick up your book, David? What are they

going to learn? What are you going to teach us? What is This,

you call it the blueprint? So what are some of the aspects of

the blueprint for your freedom lifestyle?

Well, like like you, Brad, I have some

frameworks and one of my frameworks if you can picture a

triangle, or pyramid, some some people are probably familiar

with Maslow's hierarchy of needs. I know you are. Yes, I

am. So I took a little bit of his pyramid, but I changed it up

a little bit, but it still falls a little bit. And at the bottom

of the pyramid, the base of the pyramid, where Maslow has

survival, minus minus financial freedom. Look, a big part of

everybody's life is paying the bills having enough to support

the family and the needs, right. And, and so there's always a

focus on that, that was always my big focus when I was young. I

never knew how much was enough. So I was a big driver for

financial freedom. So yes, you need to have some financial

security, if you can, if you can get to a point in your life

where lifestyle entitlement is not just eating up every bit of

your income, you've got some margin. So you can have got some

breathing room, then when when tough times calm, it reduces the

stress. So financial freedom, whether it's through income or

investments, it's a big part or combination thereof is a big

part of what I teach. The next level up from there is time

freedom. I, you know, I talked earlier about the fact that I

was such a driver that I didn't take time, or didn't didn't

respect time in my early life, like I do today, time with

people with relationships with making memories. So financial

freedom allows you to have time frame because you're not always

having to drive drive drive. The next one is we've already talked

about is relationships, are you able to engage in relationships,

because you choose to engage them and you're not doing things

or engaging with people because you feel like you have to that

could be who you work with your staff, your employees, it could

be who your client base is? Are you working with people because

you enjoy them? Your vendors? Are you working with vendors?

Because you enjoy? Or are you being compressed to have to do

things again, because you haven't built the earlier

freedoms. The fourth one on that pyramid is health. How many

times do because of stress, stressful times adversity, and

I've done this, we put off our health? Well, I'll get back to

that. When I get these things in order. The problem is, we need

self care. When we're going through stressful times, it's

the worst time to to to abdicate your self care in terms of

health. If you you need to have some regimen goes to your what

you've asked about me about habits, you need to keep doing

things that allow you to stay physically healthy nutrition and

health is important to keep you are able to move through the

difficult times. And then the top of the pyramid is very

similar to Maslow's is the self actualization, which I just

interpret that as its significance, purpose, meaning,

what's your what you know, what's your real why in life?

And so going through the book, these frameworks allow people or

give them permission to number one, ask them the questions that

we talked about today. What is my real purpose? Am I driving

towards that? What's missing in the frameworks, and to allow

people to do to always consider in life, the opportunity to

evolve to iterate that's what's your next, instead of thinking

thing, maybe just improving your skill sets a little bit, which

is always the thing to do. But what else can I do to expand my

skill sales skill sets, expand my horizons, so that I'm always

have a chance to to make a move, I made a big move in my life.

Yes, I went from a career in dentistry to to a totally

different life. But it's it's had great, great meaning for me

to do that I was pushed to do it. But why don't give yourself

permission to expand and not just be focused on one thing

that says this is your industry, this is your degree, this is who

you are, wear that hat, this is how you behave. I think you've

got to allow yourself room and freedom to expand those horizons

into what's your next.

Yes, that's awesome way of looking at there. And the

I hadn't even thought about passes hierarchy for a while,

and certainly is great significance to our conversation

here. Because you want to get to the top right, but you can't get

to the top without the foundation. And so that purpose,

you don't know the word you I think you kind of start with the

purpose and the vision. But you got to build build up to that

you got to build the foundation, you can't have the whole pyramid

without all those aspects here. So tell us about if some body or

I'd like to hear a story about how some person or some

situation you may have been involved with how you've seen

that happen, how their lives being rebuilt a little bit,

maybe someone you've worked with in your coaching or who's read

some of your work, because there are people out in your life who

you've seen had some transition and transformation because of

what you've been able to teach and lead.

Yeah, absolutely. I think I think even most

recently, you know, in tandem, you know, we talked about COVID

and I think COVID while it's been and still is a certainly a

big concern and causing stress for many people's lives. The

time that it allowed, particularly back in earlier

part of last year, for that reflection, a lot of the people

that we work with, when that reflective mode, I think maybe

for the first time they really hadn't got a chance to Look at

that top of the pyramid and think about what is my real

purpose and significance. So for example, we I can think of one

of our members is a periodontist and gum specialist. She, she's a

female her husband is in is in software engineering. And they

school going to college era. And she told me that she said during

COVID, you know, a lot of kids came back home schools or

schools are closed down online. So in fact, I heard this from

several members, they got I

had the same experience myself, my college

senior last year had to move home suddenly and ruin his

senior year and Okay,

well, it ruin their senior year. But the thing

I heard from the parents, and I think the kids will also, at

least in time, respect us, even though I understand it's

disrupting to their, to their, to their focus in life. It gave

a lot of these parents, when they call it a second chance, or

a second opportunity, maybe not second chance, a second

opportunity to spend some more time with that adult child who

was getting ready to leave the nest and how much they enjoyed

that time and how much they really said, you know, what, if

I can't go to work, and and Johnny or Susie can't be off at

school, then how do we make the most of this time? What do we do

with his time, and there was some really some, some great

stories of families coming back together. And I think I think

that really started to sync with some of the the driven business

owners to think, you know, should I keep running or driving

on the same path I've been doing? Why can't I? How can I

not? Why can't I but also, how can I make some changes doesn't

mean you have to sell your practice, but maybe there's some

changes you can make by bringing in a partner selling part of the

practice, looking for the opportunity to now you know, go

to their next and do it sooner and not wait for some industry

or societal standard and says, You work until you're 65, then

you quote, retire. See, I don't I don't like that model. And I

think that's a very industrial age model that what comes from

from a generate generations ago. And it's we're way past that. So

we shouldn't think in terms of retirement, we should just think

about what's our next.

Yes, what's our next? Well, that's awesome. And

it shows that that person had that second chance, I had the

same traits myself, my two adult sons, after being an empty

nester for several years, I didn't move at home during the

COVID crisis. And so it's been it's been a bit of a mixed bag.

But also, like you said, a second opportunity to rebuild

relationships. And really, what's what's you know, what

we've talked about freedom here, Dave, we're really talking about

values in our lives that we enhance. And if our values are

based on just succeeding financially, only then that's

not a complete fulfilled life. And if we have, you know, areas

where we're lacking, whether it's in our relationships, or

whether it's in our spiritual life, or whether it's in our

physical health or in our financial resources, they were

not completely free. And so what you're teaching us here is a

pathway to freedom, a blue blueprint here and that that's

awesome. Any word said if folks want to learn more about you,

David, or learn about any, any process that that you offer that

can be helpful to people? How can people learn more about you

and be in contact with you?

Well, I do have the website, Dr. Phelps, calm.

Also, my, my community that I facilitate Freedom, freedom

founders calm, and then the book itself, a good place to go for

that. One is find your next.com there, people can learn more

about the book. And there's also a number of bonuses along with a

book that provides some additional ancillary frameworks

and the ability for people to work through some of the

constructs in the book, so that would be another good place for

them to go.

Well, that's awesome. Before we go, it just

kind of gives it update. How's your daughter doing?

Well, thank you. The last 10 years of her life,

she's now 28 years old, and 18 she suffered one of her biggest

setbacks after the liver transplant almost lost her but

the good Lord has been very good to her since she's survived that

for the last 10 years have been the best part of her life and

she's in school well online in school, but she is she's she's

building a momentum you know, into to independence and yeah,

Life Life is good. She's learned a lot I learned a lot. adversity

shapes us provides character see it through I would tell people

see it through understanding you will not last last forever. And

there's another side to that adversity, adversity that you're

going through right now if you are suffering that

yeah, that's awesome. I always like to hear

those stories that there is a crucible we can go through a

wilderness experience as you were if you will, to kind of

give a bit of a biblical metaphor to it that you budget

you can come out to a promised life a promised land it's it's

worth it isn't it's worth it to come out. But you got to work

through it you if you if you get stuck in your wrote real trouble

and what you've given us here, I love the title. What's your next

because what's your next implies? You can't stay stuck,

Kenny you got to keep keep going. So thank you for being

our guest here today on beyond adversity. Our guest today the

author of watching Next, the blueprint for creating your

freedom lifestyle. You can find it by Dr. Phelps calm. His name

is Dr. David Phelps. Thank you, Dave.